http://delerius.wordpress.com/2010/04/29/raiders-vs-raids/ - good read. Not your typical wall of text.
I will agree with Del, I do not see anything in his post that I disagree with. WoW is a game and why play a game if it is not fun. Once it becomes not fun, un-fun, boring etc. it maybe time to move on. However, until we get to that point, why do we still play even at max level, and upper tier gear? Del hit is right on the head we play/raid - for our friends. In SR people are willing to cut gems, look for mats on alts etc.
Disclaimer: I do not believe in the below. I am super nice asian dude!~
However, I do understand and see there are reasons for others to play/raid in this game still. Lets take some of the upper world guilds. Sure they may make friends etc. But at that point the driving point is not fun or friendship, it maybe for the sponsorship dollars, presssure to be world first, and the desire to be the best at ANY cost. That is greed, inflating the ego, and memememememememe.
They may work together to achieve, but how many are wondering…I hope that loot drops, oooo when we get this more money, more fame, more epeen? At that point, from an outsider looking in, it appears to be more of a job then a game or hobby. At that point do we care more about our own fame and development rather then the guild a whole organism? Or are we only concerned enough about it for the fame such a tag shall garner?
When in the game/raid…what do we think about? Loot? Fame? Thrill/Challenge? There is nothing wrong with those, deep down inside we all want that…human nature dictates we look out for ourselves. Self preservation is the name of the game. Look at the numerous posts about X ninja’d this, omfg this person looted a gbank and ran, and trade trolls….I think you see my point, we want what other have.
Very rarely does one hear anything good about the happenings in WoW…we like to focus on the negative and with morbid curiosity watch/read it. /popcorn. Sure we have those individuals who level’d non stop for charity…and that is great…but what about the players who griefed them on the way….
Who wants to hear about the nice when we can see who ninja’ed what…that makes for much more fun. We are drawn to the bad more then we would like to admit. Like slowing down to glance at a car accident.
Also the fake bravado being on the internet brings tends to bring out the worst in people. Makes us do and say things we would not normally do in real life. /ethug mode engage!
Why be nice when I can get away with things I normally cannot?? /ponder
Now you may disagree with me but the average WoW player is going to be somewhere in between the members of my guild (For the greater good!) and a douche bag guild (not going to name a certain guild). Scratch that I am going to assume the worst…if chat troll, ninja looters, rage quitters, hackers, gold sellers/byuers are within WoW’s population, I am going to make the conclusion, many people raid/play WoW for themselves only.
I know everyone likes to read strats and watch videos!!! Well i do at least.
Kae over at Dreambound has an awesome way to comprehend the madness of the intial phases of the Lich King encounter. Enjoy…I know i did, and I cannot wait for part 2.
The title is weird, but hear me out.
You know the good pain…like burning your tongue before letting good food cooldown, picking a scab, or learning a new fight with your guild mates.
Bad Pain: PuGs, HoS, and nuclear winter.
Anyways 25′s still an issue, roflstomp the lower spire….next section, take sledgehammer and apply to face.
On the healing front…15% bonus to healing and shield….kinda ridiculous.
I have to say at first I did not like Holy Paladin healing. but having done it some more, it is a hell of a lot of fun. Its fun smashing things with a sledgehammer heal! And plate armor…no more sissy robes!!!!!!! RAWR!!!!
This is like HL Spamming:
While this is like Disc Priesting:
Quick protect the raid kittens!!!
(yes, this is filler)
We’re continuing to refine the raid progression paths in Cataclysm, and we’d like to share some of those changes with you today. Please enjoy!
The first of the refinements being made is that we’re combining all raid sizes and difficulties into a single lockout. Unlike today, 10- and 25-player modes of a single raid will share the same lockout. You can defeat each raid boss once per week per character. In other words, if you wanted to do both a 10- and 25-person raid in a single week, you’d need to do so on two different characters. Normal versus Heroic mode will be chosen on a per-boss basis in Cataclysm raids, the same way it works in Icecrown Citadel. Obviously the raid lockout change doesn’t apply in pure Icecrown terms though, as this change goes hand-in-hand with a few other changes to raid progression in Cataclysm.
Interesting….10 and 25 share the same lockout…but that makes sense when coming to the next section.
We’re designing and balancing raids so that the difficulty between 10- and 25-player versions of each difficulty will be as close as possible to each other as we can achieve. That closeness in difficulty also means that we’ll have bosses dropping the same items in 10- and 25-player raids of each difficulty. They’ll have the same name and same stats; they are in fact the exact same items. Choosing Heroic mode will drop a scaled-up version of those items. Our hope is that players will be able to associate bosses with their loot tables and even associate specific artwork with specific item names to a far greater extent than today.
Dungeon Difficulty and Rewards
10- and 25-player (normal difficulty) — Very similar to one another in difficulty; drop the exact same items as each other.
10- and 25-player (Heroic difficulty) — Very similar to one another in difficulty; drop more powerful versions of the normal-difficulty items.
We of course recognize the logistical realities of organizing larger groups of people, so while the loot quality will not change, 25-player versions will drop a higher quantity of loot per player (items, but also badges, and even gold), making it a more efficient route if you’re able to gather the people. The raid designers are designing encounters with these changes in mind, and the class designers are making class changes to help make 10-person groups easier to build. Running 25-player raids will be a bit more lucrative, as should be expected, but if for a week or two you need to do 10s because half the guild is away on vacation, you can do that and not suffer a dramatic loss to your ability to get the items you want.
Woot! About time….makes NO sense that one would drop better gear of the other. The 25 man should just drop more gear, gold etc, Which appears they are going to do. No more herding extra kittens if you do not want to.
We recognize that very long raids can be a barrier for some players, but we also want to provide enough encounters for the experience to feel epic. For the first few raid tiers, our plan is to provide multiple smaller raids. Instead of one raid with eleven bosses, you might have a five-boss raid as well as a six-boss raid. All of these bosses would drop the same item level gear, but the dungeons themselves being different environments will provide some variety in location and visual style, as well as separate raid lockouts. Think of how you could raid Serpentshrine Cavern and Tempest Keep separately, but you might still want to hit both every week.
Good idea. Make the lower tier of raids smaller, and the larger ones larger. I like…visiting numerous locations would help to break up looking at the same zone over and over again…lower spire anyone…/puke.
We do like how gating bosses over time allows the community to focus on individual encounters instead of just racing to the end boss, so we’re likely to keep that design moving forward. We don’t plan to impose attempt limitations again though, except maybe in cases of rare optional bosses (like Algalon). Heroic mode may not be open from day one, but will become available after defeating normal mode perhaps as little as once or twice.
Not sure about this…is gating ever a good idea???
In terms of tuning, we want groups to be able to jump into the first raids pretty quickly, but we also don’t want them to overshadow the Heroic 5-player dungeons and more powerful quest rewards. We’ll be designing the first few raid zones assuming that players have accumulated some blue gear from dungeons, crafted equipment, or quest rewards. In general, we want you and your guild members to participate in and enjoy the level up experience.
Spamming 5 man heroics again? Making them feel epic and decent quest rewards?? I missed that experience as I was behind when i started to play a lot. I will enjoy it when cata comes around.
We design our raids to be accessible to a broad spectrum of players, so we want groups to be able to make the decision about whether to attempt the normal or Heroic versions of raids pretty quickly. The goal with all of these changes is to make it as much of a choice or effect of circumstance whether you raid as a group of 10 or as a group of 25 as possible. Whether you’re a big guild or a small guild the choice won’t be dependent on what items drop, but instead on what you enjoy the most.
Edit: The QQ from all the comments about this annoucement is killer…nerdrage to the extreme…f’ing hilarious. The tears are so delicious.
Ok as you have seen from Ari’s blog http://clearcasting.wordpress.com/2010/04/22/cue-the-music/ and Koala’s blog http://dotsandhots.wordpress.com/2010/04/22/of-birthdays-laps-and-warlock-tears/ it is now SR vs LK. Who will win….though it might take some time…SR will win. Hey the good guys always win! AMIRITE!!! HELL YEAH! I cannot wait to kill him and the heroics!!!! MOAR LOOOOTTTTT lolololol.
But what then….? Sure there are heroics modes to look foward to. Also there is still the 25 man versions. But in my opinion, they will not have the same thrill of killing a boss for the 1st time.
Also after killing LK and moving on to heroics and eventually learning those fights….what does guilds/players have to look foward to??? Sure there is going to be the Ruby Sanctum…but if the OS is any indication, it will be short and sweet for the most part.
Man I am real negative lately :P
As Arioch has mentioned already, SR’s weekly venture into the dark evil world of 25 man raids happened again. As usual stomp on thru the lower spire….except i managed to die 30 seconds into Marrowgar….got boned…and then thru to the ground to eat dirt…yeah no dinner no phone call from Marrowgar. :(
Lady Deathwhisper….easy street…..Lootship….Deathbringer….all easy for the most part.
I apologize to all….the attempts made on Rotface really wore me out…when we got to Fester…i could not seem to hit the buttons fast enough…I knew what to expect…but it seemed people seemed squishier then normal, especially the clothies not in group 5. Also I useually dont have any issues with latency etc, but last night…things were not moving as fast as normal…must have been tired. /shrugs.
Also I normally do not like to complain as we all make mistakes but yeah lots of mistakes were made last night etc. I know i made some, everyone made some. But with 25 mans…ugh seeing a bunch of people ins slime spray makes a healer cry.
Tonight 10 man continuation on Sindy and hopefully make it to LK!
Thursday…I may not be able to make it due to school related things…hopefully will be done before then.
Highlight of the 25 man raids…got meself a second upgrade token. Saving it for the BP :)
Wish our other Fury Warrior could have gotten the axe T_T
Not sure why deathbringer only like to drop the priest, paladin, warlock token. But I am sure not complaining!
Some quotes from Guild last night. Lyssianna – “Ewww my fries are limp.”
Happy hump day. see ya. /coffee
These is my thoughts and ideas on how i approach healing ICC (do not take them as law or the only way to do things), any ideas or comments are appreciated. Also this is coming fromt he perspective of a disc/holy priest.
For the trash in the lower spire – know who your aggro magnets are and shield them…sometimes though you will not be able to save them. Bubbles tanks and your fellow healers. PoM, Penance, and Flash heal when needed. Dispel any debuffs you can see, only one that I can see dispelable by priests – shield bash if i recall correctly. If you trigger the traps watch out fot the giants shout and stop casting, or you get hit the evil silence. You will have time to finish a spell as it will have a cast time. Watch the mobs cast bar. The tanks maybe hit pretty hard from the trap giant so prepare accordingly.
1st boss – Lord Marrowgar
Things to watch out for: Saber Lash – make sure your tanks are facing him away from the raid. Hopefully your tanks will also be BFFs as they need to stick to one another like glue. Saber Lash dmgs is split between them and also prevents them from being Bone Spiked. The damage to the tanks can be heavy so be careful.
Bone Spike – Shield and renew the target if poss (PoM if it is up). Mimimum shield them. *keep eyes on tanks!*Only one bone spike in 10 man normal.
Cold Flame - nuff said…don’t stand in it.
Bone Storm – easy, run and get GTF away from him. Renew, PoM, and shield targets, avoid the cold flames as well. One thing to watch out for…when he is about done with the storm…watch the tanks. Shield them up, PoM them. Don’t let the transition between Bone Storm and “normal” mode catch you off guard.
Pain Suppression, Shadowfiend, Hymn of Hope, and Divine Hymn as needed.
Boss Two – Lady Deathwhisper
I have never DPS’d this fight before, so I cannot really comment on the adds that she spawns. Thanks to Koala reminding me – watch out for adds if you get targeted…dont let them eat your face! run!!!
Death and Decay – easy…stand out of the bad.
Shadow Bolt – shield people up and top them off.
For the tanks – keep them shielded and PoM up.
DPS shield if you can and have mana to spare otherwise don’t.
When phase 2 starts – the tanks will be swapping the boss due to Touch of insignificance. Keep people shielded and topped off. Hopefully someone will be interrupting her big frost bolt. As far as Frostbolt volley. Mass dispel and heal. Watch out for ghosts – dont get tunnel visioned! Also watch out for Death and Decay.
She does not mind control in 10 man version and spawns less adds.
Round 3 – Gunship Battle – aka loot ship.
Pretty simple. Make sure everyone gets a rocketpack and equips it. I am not going to talk about the fight itself but rather the healing needed.
Healing the raid itself is relatively easy – shield, PoM, renew. People should be avoiding the the rocket strikes as it leave a big freakin mark on the ground.
For the tank staying on your ship – shield, heal, PoM. The dmg they take should not be too bad and is easily healed thru.
For the tank jumping over…they will take considerable more damage. That evil dwarf hits hard. Shield, PoM, and Pain suppression. Also when the tank is jumping over make sure to keep them healed and shielded.
Round 4 – Deathbringer Saurfang
Another relatively easy fight, once you understand how the fight goes. Until then this fight can be rough.
1st – Blood Nova – make sure ranged is spread out – range of 8.
2nd – Blood Boil - shield the target. Although shielding no longer stops him getting Blood Power, it will cut down on the damage the target takes.
3rd – Blood Beasts – melee will need to watch their attacks as will tanks, you do not want to get hit by these. Hits = more blood power for Saurfang. Your ranged DPS will need to use their abiliites to kill these ASAP and slow them root as needed. Note: Paladins can Hammer of Justice one to stun them, Death Knights can Chains of Ice them as well. 2 blood beasts in 10 man.
4th – Mark of the Fallen Champion – BAD BAD BAD!! If someone gets this, do not let them die, as it will heal Saurfang for a alot. Heal them ASAP and constantly.
5th – I dont recall the ability name but tanks will have to taunt off one another.
Also at about 30% Saurfang will soft enrage, healers be on your toes!
!st this pic rocks!!
2nd – Guilds, Content, and WoW.
I know I may have touched on this before, but I really wonder how Blizzard is going to keep people happy till Cata. One little sanctum instance is not going to keep people happy. Well its to late now…but Blizzard should have had something in place to extend the life of ICC perhaps, but not with artificial lock….that is lame. More wings etc?
ICC its supposed to be some massive fortress, but it did not feel epic in scope. Especially when one compares it to Kara, or even Ulduar. Where are all of Arthas’ soldiers…ICC is pretty empty…oh wait they are all on the outside having a BBQ.
With such easy access to “endgame” what exactly does a guild provide in game?
Read Lissanna’s post!
It has some very nice points and overall an awesome blog to read.
Getting back on point - I do agree with Lissanna’s idea of making 10 and 20 man raids rather then 25. 25 is an awkward number. 5 less kittens to herd into a box…err raid. 5 less people to worry about standing in bad, 5 less people to deal with when handing out loot. 5 less people afking at bad times. 5 less people to umm…
I will have to disagree with the Guild Level idea. I think it will help bring guilds back to the fore front of being a “need” to raid. If they do it well the benefits to being in a guild that is lvl’d up should shine.
I know some may disagree with me – but I don’t like this, lets PuG this or PuG that…the system in place is like a “loot pinata”. With that system in place…anyone and their momma can get epics. This hurts guilds and recruiting. This is one of the reasons that it took me so long to play wow seriously….the ease of obtaining loot. I hate going back to an old game, but in FFXI every piece was earned and no so easily thrown out 3 months later. Each piece of loot was earned and well deserved.
Maybe Blizzard needs to look into some items that need to be required to be farmed to pop a boss, have a item with a high cost that needs to be purchased or something. It’s kind of sad a new 80 after grinding out a few days of heroics can be quite well geared. (although that is how my priest did it.)
Cata. changes…ok Blizzard…take your designers and you may want to hit them with whiffle bats will they bleed. Lifegrip…Wild Mushroom…wall of fog….why….if you wanted people to worry about things..you sure succeeded. But it is still early and things may change. :)
Wow….ok I am going to boast a bit….
RAWR 14!!! /flex
Must be doing something right!
Ok done with bragging. This could not have been done without my fellow guildmates. Their high lvl of skill enables us to get thru these areas with relative ease. Thanks once gain to my awesome guild.
Also noteworthy is Sorak is no longer the guild loot whore….that title now goes to our Goddess of Death Lyssi….Sorak…you need to SIU.
Which do you prefer? A big old bunch of kittens running around or a smaller more managable lot?
Do you prefer fight mechanics with a twist? Or the closer knit teamwork of 10?
For many it is a matter of personal preference. You cannot deny the gear that drops from 25 man raids are bigger and flashier. (But we are not in the game for loot, right?) However 25 mans do have their own issues with raid comp, strats, etc.
For 25 man raids…one of the more apparent issues is the member department. You need 25 people, which i guess is a huge step down from the 25 man raids, but to get 25 people managing around real life etc, can be a hassle for any RL or GM. 25 differnt people of varying skill, gear, and PC/internet connections.
Although, in a 25 man raid i guess you can carry a few warm bodies thru with no problem. However, when you have people who may not know how to do something correctly and continue to stroke the Epeen…you may have issues and wipe. Try to get 25 people to do something complex….my hats off to people who run such things.
Last night a friend of mine playing on Khadgar texted me with a complaint that his guild was having issues with people not showing up to 25 mans or trying to get their lower geared alts in the raid instead of their mains. Ok if the content is on “farm” then bringing in alts may not be an issue, but when doing progression content..bringing in alts may or not be a no-no. As far as people not showing up….that is an issue every guild faces. This maybe even more prevelant once summer hits. Or it may not be an issue as people in school may have more time to raid. But then again summer is the time for vacation and travel.
*some people in guild already celebrating summer >.>”
25 mans also add an extra mechanic or enhance an exisitng mechanic a boss may do, Festergut throws more spores out into the ranged..so more designated pukers are needed. Rotface seemed pretty much the same, damn oozes. (freakin bastard). Lady D, mind controls a random member and an has adds pop both sides and the same time and one from the back. As long as people learn and adapt to these changes and adjust their thinking, raid should be ok. Festergut, honestly I was caught a bit off guard for the gas dmg intially. Again adjust and move on.
For the healing comp. It seems they will have a role set in stone more often then not. Assigining healers to tank, and individuals to raid. Sure can help out a bit on other assignments, but if you are assigned stick to it…*shrugs*
10 Man raids
10 man healing, although you may assign tanks etc. With the limited # of players…you may find oneself tankhealing and helping out raid healing. Too many people go down in 10 man…and you might as well call a wipe. The cogs in a 10 man team cannot afford to lose too many teeth before going down for the count.
10 man the bosses will have lower HP etc. Also will not have some special move like they do in their 25 man counter part. Lady D does not mind control and the adds alternate from side to side and no extra add in the back. Other then that the fight is the same.
However, even with being “lowered” from their 25 man identity, these bosses cannot be taken lightly still. With only 10 spots in a raid to fill, the delilcate balance of tanks – healer – DPS (ranged/melee) must be blended correctly. Also with a 10 man raid, this may allow one to learn your fellow raid members playing habits easier, while in the sea of 25 man…you cannot learn everyone’s playung style.
Does player A prefer to go left or right 1st? Does player X like to move away from people? Does player C prefer to raid or tank heal? Are they KB turner or a mouse turner? Clicker? or keybinder?
*STAY AWAY FROM SOTH’S DOT!!!!”
With 10 man raids it is also easier for the RL or GM to get 10 poeple together. That is 15 less people to herd into a litter box. 15 less sources of potential stress. However, with the 10 chosen these people will need to bring their “A” game every time they raid. The margin for error is a lot smaller then it is in for 25 man. Only thing gear does is allow for a larger margin of error. Gear does not a player. Experience, learning, and performing well makes a good player.
By the way, I prefer 10 man raids. But certain pieces of gear from 25 man raids have caught my eye…Solace of the fallen and the abacus. Now that Sorak has them, they will “never” drop again.
Stay frosty people!